This post is in reply to a comment Matt Bille had made regarding UFOs. I had mentioned them while reviewing First Man: The Life of Neil A. Armstrong. Matt’s comment is reproduced, below (I have corrected misspellings):
“Frank, a good review, for the most part, of a great book. The reason the UFO angle is dismissed is that all the astronaut UFO/conspiracy tales have been long since shot down by the astronauts, NASA, and/or James Oberg. I don’t discount UFOs, but none of the alleged astronaut stories intrigues me.”
The problem I have with statements like this are on many levels, not to mention entire books have been writing for and against your position! :-] 1) First, it’s an absolute. I know of very few absolutes in the world. Or the universe. The long and the short is that just because a theory or postulation or observation may have been “proven”… doesn’t mean it’s a law. Only an observed phenomena. Sure, some may be repeatedly reproduced, but it’s still only based upon specific observations that don’t necessarily preclude opposing theories or observations. The classic example I always use is wave particle duality. “I see a blue jay,” doesn’t mean all birds are blue jays. Just because I see a blue jay does not mean there are no cardinals nor finches nor chickadees nor…. 2) Based on statistics alone—I’m talking pure number crunching here—there is the possibility of extraterrestrial life elsewhere. The different rabbit holes we could travel down here are far too numerous to even attempt in a post reply. And as anyone who’s ever worked with numbers can attest, the same set of numbers in anything can be used as pros or cons. 3) I’m going to see if I can present a reading list (and yes, I did read every one of them!) in this reply to your post, Matt. If not, I’ll make a separate post of it. In any case, these will be my rebuttal about UFOs, because so much has already been written about both sides of the argument. I know you say you don’t discount them, but you also seem to believe (though you state your position in third person, distancing yourself from directly saying “I believe what the gov’t is telling me…”) what the government tells you, that they don’t exist—which to me seems contradictory. In any event, to me, it really seems that discounting the possibility or probability of extraterrestrial life seems based upon beliefs. I’ve met and talked with Stanton Friedman, and he makes the best, most down-to-earth argument for them. Read his bio. An ex-nuclear physicist who worked classified projects for the government. Geesh, what more can I say, Matt? 4) Now, given the view in #3, I’m just going to cite one reference here (but see my suggested reading list, below), because there are so many, but read Body Of Secrets, Anchor Books, 2002, by James Bamford, ISBN 0-385-49908-6. A book about the National Security Agency. Written by interviewing people who were (and are?) a part of NSA. It talks of what that organization does, about ferreting out secrets, of keeping secrets…but also of the out-and-out deceit. How people purposely lied in the interests of national security—and other reasons. Whether one lies to serve a national interest or not, people do it for reasons they feel compel them to do so, mental issues notwithstanding, etc. And in the instance of UFOs, if the government really knows anything, and feels compelled to keep what they know a secret—for whatever reason—of course they’re not going to say anything in favor of extraterrestrial life. Of course they’re going to deny. Again whole books have been written about this, too, but you can read Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will To Believe, Prometheus Books, 2001, Carl T. Pflock, ISBN 1-57392-894-1 as a counter to the belief in UFOs (also on my reading list). And as a counter to Mr. Pflock’s book, read any of Mr. Friedman’s books, or the tome UFOs And The National Security State, Hampton Roads Publishing Company, 2002, by Richard M. Dolan, ISBN 1-57174-317-0 (volume two has just come out, too), if you want to pick “just one book” to get a feel for the subject. 5) BTW, didn’t Mr. Oberg abandon his attack on UFOs at some point? Haven’t the time this morning to look into that. 6) And lastly, you wanna “talk NASA”? Read DARK MISSION: THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA, BY Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara, Feral House, ISBN 978-1-932595-26-0
So, it’s cool that you don’t discount ET life, Matt, but I really have to take issue with your “…all the astronaut UFO/conspiracy tales have been long since shot down by the astronauts, NASA, and/or James Oberg…” statement. Just my humble-or-not-so-humble opinion. But thanks for reading and taking the time to respond!
Suggested Reading
THE RIGHT STUFF, Bantam Books/Farrar, Straus, & Giroux, 1979/2001, Tom Wolfe, ISBN 0-553-38135-0
DEEP BLACK, Berkley Books, 1988, by William Burrows, ISBN 0-425-10879-1
DREAMLAND, Villard, 1998, by Phil Patton, ISBN 0-375-75385-0
LEAP OF FAITH, Harper Torch, 2002, by Gordon Cooper, ISBN 0-06-109877-9
BODY OF SECRETS, Anchor Books, 2002, by James Bamford, ISBN 0-385-49908-6
The Zeta Reticuli Incident (and Commentary), AstroMedia Corporation, 1976, Terence Dickinson
TOP SECRET/MAJIC, Marlowe & Company, 2005, by Stanton T. Friedman. MSc, ISBN 1-56924-342-5
CRASH AT CORONA, Paraview Special Editions, 2004, by Don Berliner and Stanton Friedman, ISBN 1-931044-89-9
ABOVE BLACK, OneTeam Publishing, 1997, 2006, by Dan Sherman, ISBN 0-9660978-0-7
UFOs AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE, Hampton Roads Publishing Company, 2002, by Richard M. Dolan, ISBN 1-57174-317-0
THAT CRAZY LADY DOWN THE ROAD, Earth Star Publications, 2005, by Judy Messoline, ISBN 0-944851-14-2
ALIEN AGENDA, HarperCollinsPublishers, 1997, by Jim Marrs, ISBN 0-06-109686-5
COMMUNION, Beech Tree Books, 1987, by Whitley Strieber, ISBN 0-688-07086-8
TRANSFORMATION, Avon Books, 1988, by Whitley Strieber, ISBN 0-380-70535-4
BREAKTHROUGH, HarperCollinsPublishers, 1995, by Whitley Strieber, ISBN 0-06-017653-9
The works of Seth, Jane Roberts, and Rob Butts.
THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL, Pocket Books, 1997, by Colonel Philip J. Corso (Ret.) and William J. Birnes, ISBN 0-671-01756-X
SKY WALKING, Collins/Smithsonian Books, 2006, Tom Jones, ISBN 978-0-06-088436-9
DARK MISSION: THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA, BY Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara, Feral House, ISBN 978-1-932595-26-0
ROSWELL: INCONVENIENT FACTS AND THE WILL TO BELIEVE, Prometheus Books, 2001, Carl T. Pflock, ISBN 1-57392-894-1
THE ROSWELL LEGACY, New Page Books, 2009, Jesse and Linda Marcel, Jr., ISBN 978-1-60163-026-1
SECRETS OF ANTIGRAVITY PROPULSION, by Paul A. LaViolette, Ph.D., Bear & Company, ISBN 978-1-59143-078-0
FLYING SAUCERS AND SCIENCE, by Stanton Friedman, New Page Books, ISBN 978-1-60163-011-7
RULE BY SECRECY, by Jim Marrs, Perennial, ISBN 978-0-06-093184-1
FIRST MAN, by James R. Hansen, Simon and Schuster Paperbacks, ISBN 0-7432-5631-X
THE LAST MAN ON THE MOON, by Eugene Cernan with Don Davis, St. Martin’s Press, ISBN 0-312-19906-6
Frank, as you note, there have been whole books (lots of them) on this, and opinions will differ on whether any particular case has been “explained.” I always thought the late J. Allen Hynek had written the best books ever on the UFO phenomenon. Hynek argued, successfully I think, that while we do not have evidence sufficient to accept alien spaceships, we do have evidence for the existence of some phenomenon that is causing UFO sighting reports and is currently unknown to us. I’ve always liked some of the late Phil Klass’ ideas about plasmas, even though Klass told me in a letter in the 1990s that he by then thought they applied to only a small percentage of UFO sightings.
As to astronaut UFOs, Oberg has now written about them in some years, although he devoted most of a book to refuting the existing claims. Think about Hoagland’s claims of alien moon bases: the TV and radio transmissions were audible, live, to thousands of NASA personnel and others around the world, and no one has ever produced evidence supporting the apparently fake transcripts that claim UFO activity.
I have read almost all the books on your list – I’d add Hynek’s works, Klass’ UFOs-Identified (the first and best of his UFO books), and and Allen Hendry’s superb UFO Investigators Handbook to make it comprehensive. I think Strieber was reporting honestly on something very real to him, but whether it was physical, psychic, or psychological is way beyond my expertise.
What matters is that we keep inquiring, asking logical questions with an open mind. Our interpretations of the answers will likely continue to differ, of course.
Best regards,
Matt Bille
I like your open mind on the subject, and appreciate your time in responding, Matt. Always a good dialogue with you!
I, however, do believe there is evidence, but what that evidence is I don’t think it conforms to what many might be thinking it is. And I certainly have no answers myself. Am still working that area out for myself, but do feel “extraterrestrial” is involved. The evidence (and I do feel there is EVIDENCE, not anecdotal renderings) speaks too highly of “a phenomenon” as you put it, going on. And from what I’ve read about the late Phil Klass, he was a debunker—and whether or not he was working with the gov’t in dumping an all ET sightings, that will remain the mystery it is. But those who actively go into investigations with agendas/their minds already made up are not investigators. They’re detractors. J. Allen Hynek went in as an intentional detractor with Project Blue Book and did a sudden turnaround part way through and became a proponent of “something is out there.” And there’s Stanton Friedman. Yes there can be arguments made for advanced government projects, mistakes, and celestial misinterpretations, but the body of evidence is there. For some reason it’s constantly being harangued.
I was told by individuals down in the San Luis Valley that their grandmother had seen things fly into and out of a mountain. Anecdotal, sure, but where does something like that come from? I’m sure something like that would stand out in someone’s memory. I believe in the inherent goodness of people. And of course, there’s the late 1800s “Texas Roswell.” How is that explained (I’m sure you’ll find out and get back to me on that one! ;-] )?
Moon bases: from what I remember reading, those transmissions were being filtered before public consumption. I’ll have to check into that again. But there was one instance of an Australian tracking station picking up on some interesting transmission that were “accidentally” leaked from the NASA filtering then quickly hushed up. Again, according to my reading research. And, really, how do we absolutely KNOW there was no filtering of what we saw and heard? How do we KNOW this? Cause someone in NASA or the government TOLD us? Again, I go back to point #4: given there is something going on out there, there are someones in the government who feel compelled to keep things a secret for some reason. Maybe it’s a good reason—maybe not. We won’t know. Everything we get, Matt—the news, books, speeches—are filtered by someone. Our own internal filters, or by mega corporations. Our own personal beliefs. Hoagland’s book talked about people airbrushing photos. Talked with people who actually did this stuff. Why won’t you believe his word over those who weren’t there (or maybe were and are sending out disinformation?)? Changing PC settings as the first images of Mars were transmitted internally to NASA. And he’s a First Person, Matt. Somebody who “was there.” Why do you choose to believe Klass over Hoagland? Or anyone else who detracts over those who were there and have just as much to say in the opposite direction? I’m not dumping on you, just asking a legitimate question.
But in any event, conspiracies or not, stuff like this can be good, because it stimulates the imagination for people like us who like to write and discuss. And I do value your (and others’) opinions and discussions on this matter! It’s great fodder for novels, too! :-]
Thanks, again, Matt!